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Odd blood glucose pattern

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  • Odd blood glucose pattern

    The Freestyle Libre is an amazing product. Even though I'm not diabetic, I'm having a great time scanning myself. I tell friends that I'm a tester for Elon Musk's Neural Link. They respond that the sensor should be right below my belt, in the back.

    Anyway, check out this odd pattern.

    - The first rise starts around 17:30 upon starting dinner.
    - The first spike is around 18:00
    - Then down and up. This is understandable as I was walking.
    - The thing that shocks me is the large spike at 20:30, 3 hours after eating.

    I ate:
    - Vegetable Burrito (no cheese, sour cream, or guac)
    - Spaghetti and tomato sauce (no cheese)
    - Small piece of garlic bread
    - Side salad (no cheese, vinegar dressing)
    - Small bowl of baked beans
    - Vegetable spring rolls
    Last edited by sthubbar; 08-11-2019, 10:04 AM.

  • #2
    It would be interesting to see cholesterol levels at the same time. I don't know if it is related or not, but sure would be interesting to compare.

    We need a liver monitor that shows us what is going on inside the liver at any point in time.

    Play detective. Why would glucose spike 3 hours after eating? How long does it take for beans to be digested and turned into glucose? Anything else that might take a long time to break down? Maybe try eating the exact same meal without the beans and see what happens.

    ETA: The first couple of lines were just me thinking out loud, and not meant as something you can do.
    Last edited by rich; 08-11-2019, 02:24 PM.

    Comment


    • sthubbar
      sthubbar commented
      Editing a comment
      rich, yes it could be the beans.

  • #3
    What was your peak score. At what time did the peak start and end? How long did it take to return to normal levels from the peak?

    Comment


    • sthubbar
      sthubbar commented
      Editing a comment
      Joe, the 20:30 peak is 122 and the middle grey line is 100, so we can estimate the other peaks around 110 and returning to baseline about 4 hours after starting eating.

  • #4
    That is an interesting pattern. I have the same questions as Joe. What are the numbers associated with the various peaks?

    Comment


    • #5
      You need to take an OGTT. WHY? Three problems: 1. You had a second peak. 2. It was two hours late arriving, and it was higher than the 1st one. 3. It took 4 hours to resolve. Normal is a peak of 120 that then returns to normal in one hour no matter what you ate. This looks like a pre-diabetes pattern to me. OGTT takes its final reading after two hours. However, using your CGM you can continue to take readings after that to see how long it takes to return to normal. Normal=83. And be sure to take CGM readings all during the OGTT. I suspect mild IR. I used my CGM all during the test. As it turned out the tech was a few minutes late on my second reading and therefore Quest Diagnostics missed my actual high of 255. So I’m full a blown diabetic. But I control it by eating very very few carbs.

      Another technique I use is “to eat to the CGM.” I eat so The CGM won’t go over 100. I would rather eat twice an hour apart than have a peak. And I consider this OMAD. YMMV.

      I also suggest you modify you diet. Only your salad was carb free. With very modest changes I believe you can easily control this. This would stop any further development of diabetes.

      Also be warned! I am no doctor!
      Last edited by Joe Reilly; 08-12-2019, 12:25 AM.

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      • Joe Reilly
        Joe Reilly commented
        Editing a comment
        Of course my perspective is quite different than yours because I’m old. 74. When faced with certain death, LCA 99%, RCA 100%, and widow maker 75%, And having very bad genes, and family history, backed up by every male in my family dying by age 55 from cardiovascular disease, I opted for certainty not experimentation with anything. And it was only the advent of angioplasty, that got me past age 43. At 43 an Army treadmill test put me in the hospital with the cardiologist thinking he had caused a heart attack. He didn’t. The ekg showed a heart attack, but the enzyme tests didn’t confirm it. I was flown from Ft. Bliss,TX to Brooke Army Hospital where they could do caths and angioplasties. My RCA and LCA were both 92%. At that time information of any kind was difficult to obtain.1988. Al Gore, my favorite president hadn’t invented the internet yet! So I was unaware of any dietary info and had no idea how to research it. Besides, I had an Army Dietitian “helping me” to certain death with the same BS about low fat as they still do. BTW, when I was admitted at Ft. Bliss My TC was 425! That was April ‘88. Then in July, they started me on something called a statin, Mevecor, the first the first statin, the first month it was introduced. Enough already!

        So, I’m only suggesting you cut carbs to a moderate level until you go on that plant based miracle diet, and provide evidence to yourself, and share it with the rest of us that it works. I don’t believe that 5 of the 6 items in your meal above being Carbs is prudent. But that is up to you! Good luck!

      • sthubbar
        sthubbar commented
        Editing a comment
        Joe, are you still taking a statin?

      • Joe Reilly
        Joe Reilly commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, Pitavastatin, 4mg. In my post of THE BREWER EFFECT the second column results were with Repatha only. I was off statins from Aug 2018 until April 2019 when I started again with Levalo-Pitavastatin. The first no pain statin!
        Last edited by Joe Reilly; 08-12-2019, 11:10 AM.

    • #6
      1) The Inuit ate almost no plants and were fully healthy. See: http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
      2) That person is John Lorscheider.

      Get a CAC scan on a 64-slice or greater machine and then get one a year from now after your starch, plant-based diet. The overwhelming evidence will become apparent.

      Listen to this: https://ultimatehealthpodcast.com/dr-william-davis/
      Last edited by fatmax; 08-12-2019, 07:21 AM.

      Comment


      • sthubbar
        sthubbar commented
        Editing a comment
        Joe, for Dr. Boz I guess you are referring to this video:https://youtu.be/a5D0paXff8Q. Imagine a young attractive smoking advocate doctor tells you with a smile that they looked around and have never seen a smoker fall over dead or have a heart attack therefore smoking promotes health, furthermore some of them are in their 80s therefore it promotes longevity. On the other hand the obviously corrupt and biased Canadian Pulmonary Association says just the opposite. Replace 'smoking' with 'keto' and 'Pulmonary ' with 'Cardiology' and you tell me what seems most likely.
        Last edited by sthubbar; 08-12-2019, 08:28 PM.

      • rich
        rich commented
        Editing a comment
        Notice the article completely ignored life expectancy. Most didn't live that long, so we don't know the long term effects of their diet. I doubt if they were any healthier than Native Americans who ate a lot of starches and other vegetables.

        Carbs and fat eventually both get broken down to Acetyl-CoA to go through the TCA cycle. Whether one eats a high fat or low fat diet, they still have to produce Acetyl-CoA to produce ATP. I have trouble on the fat side, so I eat a lower fat diet. You have trouble on the glucose side, so you eat higher fat. Nature is pretty clever and we both can still create ATP, even with our restricted diets. It's likely that for thousands of years, humans ate a high fat diet for part of the year and a low fat diet for part of the year.

        I eat a higher carb diet because I have genes that don't produce enough enzymes to properly digest and metabolize saturated fat. Since going primarily plant based, blood pressure dropped significantly, same with cholesterol, I was finally able to lose weight again, and it appears that plaque buildup has stopped. None of the inflammation labs show any significant inflammation.

        On the other hand, there are no long term studies (that I know of) that prove a high saturated fat diet is healthy long term. The native Inuit diet was low in saturated fat and high in omega-3 fat, a far cry from what most people on a keto or high fat diet eat. I was listening to an interview with Dr Bredesen, and I believe the point he was trying to make was that when 1st going keto, saturated fat is OK to get into ketosis, but long term you want to replace most of the saturated fat with unsaturated fat to avoid Alheimer's.
        Last edited by rich; 08-13-2019, 08:40 AM.

      • sthubbar
        sthubbar commented
        Editing a comment
        rich, great points.

    • #7
      Denial is the refusal to accept reality or fact, acting as if a painful event, thought or feeling did not exist. It is considered one of the most primitive of the defense mechanisms because it is characteristic of early childhood development.

      Comment


      • sthubbar
        sthubbar commented
        Editing a comment
        Joe, you are exactly correct, I was speaking hyperbolicly when I said eat anything. I'm still back to the two points that there is no evidence of any long living healthy populations eating low carb and there is not a single person reversing CVD only using low carb. I have no problem with someone saying they are dying and in dire circumstances and will do anything and everything to survive. That I understand, it just bothers me to see people willfully promoting clear lies like the Inuit story and then for Dr Boz to think what she did was any type of support of her position is truly tragic.

      • Joe Reilly
        Joe Reilly commented
        Editing a comment
        We don’t agree. And disagreeing on a forum is to be expected. Good luck on your quest.

      • sthubbar
        sthubbar commented
        Editing a comment
        Joe, where do we disagree? I have never said keto was unhealthy or a bad choice. I have never disagreed with any choices you or anyone else has made to lower their BG. Are you still thinking the Inuit are a long lived healthy keto population?
        Last edited by sthubbar; 08-12-2019, 08:36 PM.

    • #8
      In my opinion, to focus on the diet wars (Low carb vs low fat) is a mistake. The primary focus should be on insulin resistance and controlling your blood sugar and insulin response. These are the primary drivers of CVD and most of the other chronic diseases we face. It is entirely possible to handle glucose and insulin with a vegan diet, with a carnivore diet, or any permutation of LCHF, HCLF. You can be healthy on any of those diets, provided you have your glucose and insulin under control.

      Comment


      • sthubbar
        sthubbar commented
        Editing a comment
        David, great points. I agree. This does challenge the idea that 80% of health is controlled by diet. If it really is blood sugar and insulin than it would seem that any successful protocol would have mostly the same result. I guess that the method used to control blood sugar and insulin may have a large impact so that of low carb, low fat and drugs there is probably a clear ranking of which produces the best long term result even if they can equally regulate blood sugar and insulin.

    • #9
      t's a good point about delayed glucose spikes. But that's a common problem. See patterns 2 and 3 in the Kraft Insulin survey.

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