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Niacin - Release formula (Immediate, Extended, Sustained, Controlled?, Prolonged?)

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  • sthubbar
    commented on 's reply
    Thank you professor.

  • Tom
    commented on 's reply
    As you indicate, there are multiple things going on when a person takes a high dose of niacin. It is interesting in that niacin at higher levels, much higher than needed for vitamin B3/NAD+ support, is essentially a medicine at the level for modulating lipids. The high dose nicotinic acid will reduce the production of triglycerides which has broader affects on LDL (and thus Lp(a) particles) family particle production. In particular there will be fewer VLDL particles produced, and that reduces the ultimate small dense LDL particle concentration for people with metabolic syndrome. There will be for a period of a few hours an increase in carb burning and then the level of triglycerides will rise again in fasting. As in my earlier post this is why you want to take high dose niacin after the high carb meal of the day (usually the last meal before sleeping). Interestingly high doses of niacin will also reduce the inflammatory marker Lp-PLA2 (PLAC2). I am not sure exactly how it does that, but I would gather that it is by reducing the burden of high triglyceride production associated with metabolic syndrome (increased VLDL production and thus more sdLDL resulting particles).
    Last edited by Tom; 01-22-2020, 11:47 PM.

  • sthubbar
    commented on 's reply
    Tom, thank you for the detailed reply. So, it sounds like taking NA causes one of three choices 1) Stored as niacinamide 2) Converted to NAD+ 3) Methylated and peed out. If the liver is closely controlling the niacinamide and NAD+ levels, where do the lipid effects occur? If this was all I knew, I would assume that 2g of NA would almost all get peed out with practically zero benefit.

  • Tom
    commented on 's reply
    It isn't clear that taking large doses of niacin (nicotinic acid) will improve NAD+ levels beyond a certain point. The body regulates NAD+ levels generally through the liver's storage of nicotinamide. The liver will send out nicotinamide to the rest of the body when needed. This doesn't mean that a person should take a lot of nicotinamide because high levels of it will depress Sirtuin activity. So there is a bit of a paradox. When you take niacin, your liver takes most of it in on the first pass. The niacin is changed as necessary to nicotinamide at that point if the stored amount is low. The liver as a whole then determines how much it needs for the body's NAD+ level, and then the rest gets methylated and peed out. There is a general decline in NAD+ levels as we age, but niacin or nicotinamide are not the answer if the question is how to boost the NAD+ back to "youthful" levels. If you want to prevent the disease pellagra, which is a lack of vitamin B3 (one form of which is nicotinic acid), then you do need to take some niacin. Most people in the US at least probably get enough from their diet these days, but that hasn't always been the case. I will discuss NR and NMN in the other post and why those are a bit different. Because of the potential for using a lot of methyl groups with taking a lot of niacin (or NR/NMN for that matter), taking some TMG will restore methyl groups for those who might be affected. There has been some speculation that running low on methyl groups is one of the primary reasons for liver toxicity with high dose niacin or nicotinamide usage.
    Last edited by Tom; 01-22-2020, 11:09 PM.

  • sthubbar
    replied
    rich, Tom, ok great feedback. Here are my thoughts:
    1. As Tom mentioned, I also recall some talk about taking Niacin after a meal. I had forgotten the benefits he mentioned as promoting carb-burning and limiting triglycerides.
    2. Evening consumption can reduce the potential social impact of flushing
    3. Dividing the dose might spread out the benefits, including increasing NAD+
    I'm currently taking 500mg in the evening and plan to increase to 1,000mg in the evening and then do some blood work after 1 month to double-check AST, ALT, and lipids. If the AST and ALT look good, I am considering adding an additional 500mg in the morning.
    Last edited by sthubbar; 01-22-2020, 08:47 PM.

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  • Tom
    replied
    I would try to take niacin after the meal of the day with the most carbs, and that meal is usually dinner. The reason being is that niacin promotes preferential burning of carbs for a few hours and limits production of triglycerides. After a few hours the body will have a higher level of triglycerides in the blood. So, you don't want to take niacin early in the day if you eat a good bit of your daily carbs in a later meal. Chris Masterjohn went into this in detail in one of his podcasts if I recall correctly.
    Last edited by Tom; 01-22-2020, 07:06 AM.

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  • rich
    replied
    All at once. I take in the morning, just because that's when I take my other supplements.

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  • sthubbar
    commented on 's reply
    21sr Century has multiple niacin products.

  • sthubbar
    commented on 's reply
    rich, how do you take 2g/day? All at once at night or spread out?

  • rich
    replied
    I think Dr Brewer recommended Endur-acin and Rugby. Why not just take one of those?

    I rarely had any flush from endur-acin at 2 g/day. After I had my aortic valve replacement, I get a strong flush from just 1 g. I think it is probably related to the anticoagulant Plavix that I have to take.

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  • Dennis Smith
    replied
    I read many of the same issues. That unwanted impacts can be created by reducing the flush such as impacts to the liver. I know the flush is not related to improving my HDL, but just the same I have grown to like the flush. It feels like it is working. Maybe cleaning out my arteries. No Science there, but we do know it can help your lipid profile. The longer I have taken niacin the more is has decreased in flush.

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  • Tom
    replied
    I take Slo-Niacin, and I can't speak to 21st Century product other than to say that the one product I noted on Amazon contained inositol hexanicotinate which isn't going to do much for lipids (maybe 21st Century has other niacin products). I suspect that the company making Slo-Niacin wants to emphasize their polygel release method which may be different from the packaging technology used by other companies. As Slo-Niacin has been on the market for so long, I don't believe that it is a sustained release product in the sense of other sustained release products that were associated with higher instances of liver problems. However, there is still risk especially at higher doses. If you follow Chris Masterjohn, he believes that at least some of the toxicity issues with niacin supplementation is due to depletion of methyl groups, and he recommends taking a TMG supplement to offset that methyl group loss.

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  • Niacin - Release formula (Immediate, Extended, Sustained, Controlled?, Prolonged?)

    I have searched the forums and read the wonderful summary by John Lorscheider here and can't find this answer.

    According to this article there are three (3) standard release formulations of niacin (nicotinic acid):

    Release Flush Potential Liver impact
    Immediate Most Least
    Extended Medium Medium
    Sustained Least Most

    Some manufacturers follow this naming convention. Unfortunately, some use a different convention. How can we determine exactly what category they are?

    In particular:

    Slo-Niacin is listed as Controlled-Release
    21st Century is listed as Prolonged Release

    John lists Endur-Acin, Rugby and Slo-Niacin in the same category which suggests that Slo-Niacin is Extended release.

    How can we be sure it isn't sustained release? Same for 21st Century.
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